mbarker: (Fireworks Delight)
[personal profile] mbarker
  Original Posting Feb. 14, 2018

There was a thread that came and went recently between some writers and artists on twitter. Frankly, I thought it was a fascinating question, and some of the answers were interesting, but... Twitter just seems like it doesn't quite really bring out the answers. Anyway, I thought I'd bring the question up here, and see where we go with it.

The question was simple. Which trope do you really enjoy, no matter how often it gets used? See, we all know that tropes, or patterns of plot and thought, all too often (and sometimes rather quickly) become overused, cliche, oh, no, here it comes again! But, on the other hand, most of us do find some tropes seem to resist the trend, and can be re-used time and again, without real problems.

I will admit, I joined the thread, with a simple response. I chose to suggest that the "stand-up-and-cheer" moment (with thanks to Howard Tayler for the name) seems to me to be a venerable trope that I enjoy again and again. It's that moment when the protagonist, the hero, takes the chance and succeeds, and we want to stand up and cheer! That one always makes me smile!

So, there's the question. Which trope do you enjoy seeing played, again and again? And since we don't have the limitations of twitter, let me also ask you to comment on just why that trope seems to withstand the drag to become a cliche?
[identity profile] mbarker.livejournal.com
(heck, I think you're already playing this game - still, here it is in exercise format :-)

A quick and quirky exercise from Writer's Digest. July 2004, page 17 suggests writing a short piece and trying to cram as many cliches as possible into it. They provide a bloated parody of an inspirational piece as an example, but you can clearly do it anyway that you like. You could decide to write a 500 word review, loaded to the brim with cliches, overused metaphors, and other purple prose? Or perhaps just a personal reflection on the beauty of nose hairs, or some such delight? But lay on the cliches as thick as the lard filled sugar frosting on the wedding cake. Heap them high as the mountains, as far as the eye can see, and as thick as . . . as thick as molasses?

Oh, yes, once you've overused your cliches, the notion is that you might resist their use in the future. So don't get attached to those cliches!

here is their example:
Vocabulary-challenged writers often feel trapped between a rock and a hard place. How can you write more exciting sentences without actually learning new words? Fear not -- even if your sentences aren't exactly pushing the linguistic envelope, don't assume that, talent-wise, your glass is half-empty. You just need to think outside the box -- literally. Take a walk, see a movie, test-drive a Porsche; do anything that will get the blood flowing again. And remember, at the end of the day, the bottom line's still the same: writing isn't rocket science. Bear with it.
Go ahead, you can beat that with a stick, can't you?

The cliches have it!
[identity profile] mbarker.livejournal.com
according to the Writer's Digest, July 2004, page 17, the Plain English Campaign recommends using plain, understandable language. They took a poll for the most annoying phrases in English. The results include:
24/7
ballpark figure
bottom line
it's not rocket science
move the goalposts
push the envelope
touch base
between a rock and a hard place
is the glass half full or half empty
address the issue
bear with me
going forward
literally
ongoing
think outside the box
Their 6000 members voted for the most grating cliches as:
4. With all due respect
3. Like (used as a form of punctuation)
2. at this moment in time
and the most grating cliche was (drum roll, please? And flashing spotlights?)
1. At the end of the day
The Plain English Campaign has a website at http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/ it doesn't look as if they have repeated their survey, but it's still an interesting example.
[identity profile] mbarker.livejournal.com
original posting: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 11:24:17 JST

Not to co-opt whatever it is you're into, but it does seem as though there is a thread of rejection of stereotypes as a valid method of labeling an individual somewhere in the muddle...

[by which rather clumsy device, pray allow me to reintroduce an elderly topic with some relationship to ... writing!]

It seems to me that most of the rejection of stereotypes (and other labels) runs on several legs.

Imprimus (that's a fancy first!), there is the problem that a label tends to "suck up" and "cover over" attributes and characteristics that identify individuals. E.g., having said someone is born in a certain time, one is likely to generalize some feature of some people also born in that era (what I have so elegantly called "sucking up") and then attempt to claim that all those born at that time somehow share that feature - simply due to their birthday (and the "cover up"). From here, one can easily move into astrology.

Secondus, while there may have been some kind of reasoning (or semi-reasoning) process involved in developing a label, in use one often skips re-introducing the reasoning. Perhaps the "shorthand" form is sufficient for ordinary miscommunication, but in the pursuit of better writing, one should take some care to reinforce the forgotten chains of stereotypical development. E.g., instead of simply saying "He was a WASP, and therefore had lots of money," take the time to introduce his family, allude to their humble abode on Fifth Avenue, perhaps even bring in the yacht and the "summer cottage" in New Hampshire - one need never mention the quantity of money carried in his paper bag as he shuffled around Central Park one step ahead of the police. Really. Just let people know that he was a "free-lance recycling agent, specializing in aluminum cans and beer bottles."

Tertius (we want a firm stand, so we need at least a tripod), so many labels, although perhaps convenient in some way, have no evident logic behind them. What difference does being born during the same period make? Granted, there was a statistical bulge related to a period of sexual irrelationships attributable to a war. How much convergence did social and cultural influence have during this period? Would the ex-farmer who went to college and then (horrors!) left Ohio after the war raise children in the same way that his closest friend who went back to the family farm after the war did? For that matter, did New York city and down-field Kansas (to take two examples) suddenly grow homogenized during this period?

Well, that's a three-legged push towards discussing stereotypes and individuals in writing. As I've stated once before, I find ordinary people, who often resemble the stereotypes, somewhat interesting as subjects of writing. Still, it seems to me, the more I think about this, that the focus on individuals in writing implies that even when describing a person who fits into a stereotypical mold quite well, it is extremely important to "break the person out of the mold" and make them a living, breathing individual...

Perhaps we might consider how to take a stereotype and characterize the character in sufficient depth to take the person out of the stereotype?

Or, of course, we can return to the exchange of generational myths. (does anyone have a list of heroes, villians, and archtypes by generation? when's the test on this, anyway?)
[identity profile] mbarker.livejournal.com
original posting: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 18:00:05 JST

I, and others, have been using the word "stereotype" fairly freely recently. However, I have noticed that some of the uses aren't quite in synch with the way I use it. Therefore...

Debating 101 says always define your terms before starting, so I looked at some dictionaries.
[Webster's New World] a fixed or conventional expression, notion, mental pattern, etc.

[OAD] an idea or character etc. that is standardized in a conventional form without individuality
Interesting - one dictionary simply says conventional, while the OAD adds the notion that the stereotype "lacks individuality."

I tend to think of a stereotype as a typical person, someone you may be able to classify or categorize easily. Someone who fits (largely) in the middle on whatever scales you are using. I.e., a member of the majority, rather than one of the statistical outlyers. An identifiable "type"?

This does not mean they are necessarily a "flat" character, merely that their peculiarities are ordinary ones which may be seen in many other people.

I suppose one way to put it is that these are the people who (mostly) are the way we expect them to be and do what we might expect merely from a superficial description. The person who works to support a family (instead of having a secret laboratory, neurotic compulsion to power, or whatever). The president of a company who is doing a good job without crushing everyone in sight, embezzling funds, etc. The child who is well-adjusted.

So I go along with the idea of stereotype as conventional. That does not (to me) seem to imply they lack individuality. A conventional person - a "Father Knows Best" type, for example - can be absurdly individual and out of place in today's world. It seems to me that one of the major plotting "themes" available today is that of the conventional person faced with the uncertainty, confusion, and outright unconventional world around them.

Other people seem to consider a "stereotype" as a "flat" character, or perhaps an "Everyman" abstraction that lacks definition. An identifiable mask for the author to cloak some idea in to let it stalk around?

I don't think of stereotypes as lacking individuality. They are identifiably unique and interesting, even though they are just ordinary people who might be met anywhere.

To "break the stereotype" simply because it is expected or conventional ignores the fact that the stereotype may have grown out of very real social, economic, etc. circumstances, and there are usually many people who fit it altogether too well. Each an individual, but largely predictable. That's why people use "stereotypes" - they identify useful patterns of behavior in a simple way, allowing them to deal with people mostly in terms of the "type" instead of having to worry about unpredictable reactions.

Interestingly, Analog (Oct. 1993) has an editorial about "Nouveaux Cliches" in which Stanley Schmidt challenges writers to three points:
1. Don't confuse weak characters with strong characterization
2. Remember that human beings are not the center of the universe, or even the only interesting thing in it.
3. Dare to be fun!
His major point about characters is that some people ARE happily married, some people can manage their own lives, some people ARE the majority, yet the "cliche" of current writing is that no one has virtues, everyone is a psychological disaster area, no one can manage their own lives, marriages are all falling apart, ad nauseum.

(or as I would say, some people are stereotypes - ordinary people.)

I guess what I'm saying is that it seems possible to me to portray an ordinary person AS an ordinary person and still make them interesting. Frankly, I don't enjoy all the broken and fringe people that seem to populate current literature - they don't act like people I know, they aren't familiar, and their "solutions" seem to be surrenders.

Joe B. mentioned
- probably somewhere in the middle. I think this way of
- thinking probably helps prevent overreliance on stereotypes
- by acknowledging that people often appear "contradictory"
- merely because we tend not to accept their complexity, their
- changeability, and , like Whitman, contain, if not multitudes,
- at least small crowds. Thanks!
Joe - does this mean you see stereotypes as "flat" characters, one-dimensional characters?

Anyone - when you say "stereotype", what do you mean? How does this relate to the characters we use in writing?

Can you portray someone doing exactly what is expected - and still have an interesting, strong character?

[I haven't even touched on my thoughts about plot and setting, but they are parallel. Incidentally, anyone want to discuss the inherent stereotyping and generalization of language, of words themselves? I mean, how do you communicate if you don't share concepts?]

Any responses, comments, or thoughts gratefully read.

Apologies for accidentally bringing up a writing topic. Flog me. (no, not you, TJ.)
[identity profile] mbarker.livejournal.com
original posting: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:31:36 EST

Okay, we've recently seen the metaphoric statement "don't beat a dead horse" used repeatedly here on the list.

Think about where this comes from. No matter what you do, a dead horse won't move the wagon...

And then think about current times. Very few of us deal with horses on a regular basis anymore. So what does this saying translate into for our age?

Don't type into a computer that isn't plugged in?

Quit flicking the switch when the bulb is dead?

Don't break the key off, there's no gas in the car!

Work at it. Dream up at least five variations...select the best and work on the wording so that it has some snap, some interest.

Polish an aphorism for our times today, okay?

(and when you get tired of that dead horse stinking up the place, try reworking some of the other cliches that pile up in our common language...)

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