The Place For My Writers Notes

Original Posting 30 Dec 2009

(Is he going to talk about point of view again? Yeah, I guess he is. Well, you know, it's one of those topics that just gets chewed again and again, so... let's see what he's got to say, shall we?)

Writer's Digest, October 2008, pages 63-64, has an article by Steve Almond with the title, "Point of View." It starts off with a question about how often you have heard in workshops, "Why don't you consider a new point of view?" Or perhaps POV, which is easier to write but harder to say, I think. Steve says that such discussions usually end with the conclusion that a new POV might help, which at least gives the writer a likely suspect for whatever was wrong.

But Steve points out that POV often gets blamed for more fundamental problems like not knowing who your protagonist is or why you're telling his story. This doesn't mean that POV doesn't matter, just that choosing the right POV answers the question: "Does this POV engage the reader in the turmoil of the story?" That is the key question, not whether it's the popular choice for POV this year or whatever.

[Tink's sidebar: remember, in case you've missed it. There's basically three POV -- first person ("I"), third person ("he/she"), and second person ("you"). Third person gets some variations, ranging from cinematic (like a camera on his shoulder) through close or limited (on his shoulder and in his head) to omniscient (the gods-eye view, with knowledge from everywhere). And while third limited is probably the most popular in modern fiction, they all have their uses. And now back to Steve's article.]

Steve points out that while we describe POV in terms of the pronouns used, the real key is the emotional posture that the writer is taking to the characters, and the narrative latitude that is needed. I.e. how close do you want the reader to be with the characters? What kind of intimacy, and what kind of view of the story, do you want to give? First person or third close both put us in the main character's mind. Omniscient gives us a bit more distance, a little space between that tragic hero and ourselves.

"The trick to finding the right POV is striking this balance between intimacy and perspective. You want readers to care about your characters and understand how they experience the world. At the same time, authors have to present their own insights, either through direct exposition, ironic revelation or by shaping the story in such a way that the protagonist is forced to confront the truth as the world imposes it."

'saright? And next, Steve talks about what goes wrong with POV. First, and worst, is head hopping (what some people call SMS POV -- sudden momentary shift of POV). When you jump back and forth between characters' thoughts, feelings, knowledge, etc. it's confusing to readers. It also doesn't cue the reader in to who to care about. Not to say you can't switch POV -- you can -- but make it clear, do it at the boundaries between scenes or chapters, and don't overdo it.

Why do writers do this? Probably because we don't want to dig too deeply into a character, or because we haven't figured out who we really care about -- who matters.

And that brings up the second big problem with POV -- picking the wrong POV character. Wrong, because he or she doesn't have much at stake. They're not really involved -- which keeps the reader from getting interested, too! That doesn't mean they have to be the central figure -- remember Watson? -- but they need to be invested, have some urgency in meeting the story.

Third is what I call escaping the POV. Steve just describes it as a story where the POV character tells or acts on knowledge that they couldn't possibly know. For example, a blind character who knows what is happening on the TV screen, or perhaps the policeman who races to the bar because of the brawl that is going on there -- which hadn't been reported. The usual problem here is that the story is being told in first person or third close, but there's no sensible way to get the POV character to experience something -- so they get an amazing vision, a dream from nowhere, or some other mysterious access (known as the writer meddling) that let's the story go on. The solution? Shift to another POV or think it through to get them the knowledge without hiding behind the curtains. But don't escape the POV, that's likely to make readers go "How did they know that?" and quit reading.

And Steve's exercises are:

1. Try writing a short scene (200 words at most) with two characters. Write the first version in first-person singular. Then rewrite it in second person. And in third-person, close to one character, Third person, close to the other character. And finish up with third person, distant. (Tink's addition -- stop and think about which one felt right for you. And what changes when you shift?)
2. Read your favorite short story again. Pay attention to the use of POV. Think about how this balances intimacy and latitude.
3. Take a look at your latest story draft. If you've used first or third close, try rewriting a key scene in a more objective POV. If it's objective, pick the character you care the most about and rewrite it from that POV. (Psst? Check for Steve's three problems, too. SMS POV, wrong POV, and escaping the POV.)
4. If you're struggling with the question of who your POV characters should be, find a scene that includes the major characters. Write this scene from the perspective of each one.

I like this. He thought he liked this. The man on the hill liked this. You really like this, don't you?

Write!

Original Posting 22 September 2008

Chapter 22: Multiple Points of View

We're coming up on the end of Make a Scene by Jordan Rosenfeld. Chapter 22 is the first chapter in part four, which looks at other scene considerations. Multiple points of view, the protagonist's emotional thread, secondary and minor characters, scene transitions, and scene assessment and revision are all we have left to meander through. So let's get started.

Point-of-view or POV is one of the defining characteristics of narrative. It's really very simple, who is the character or camera that is looking at the fictional action, characters, etc.? Selecting a point of view influences tone, mood, pace -- just about everything in a scene. Probably the key to point of view is integrity and consistency -- making sure that the reader is never confused about POV.

One of the critical points to understand about POV is that it only defines what you show the reader, it also helps determine the distance between the reader and the characters. The intimacy, if you will. The story and content can help you decide how-up-close-and-personal to make the POV.

First person is the most intimate. I stabbed him -- it's immediate, emotional involvement. Inside the first person head. The flipside is that sometimes readers need some distance. Suffering, pain, crises -- third person limited can help with objectivity and intensity. When combined with present tense -- which makes it very immediate -- it's tight and hot for the reader. Past tense gives a little bit more distance.

Second person? I'm going to skip this section, because I really don't think new writers are likely to need to use second person.

Third person. This is the "she's" and "he's" that we are pretty familiar with. There are at least two major forms, with some gradations. Rosenfeld talks about omniscient and limited. He also describes two flavors of omniscient.

Third person limited is probably the most widely used POV. Basically, each scene, and often entire books, are written from one character's point of view, with some insights into that one character's thoughts, and no one else's.

Omniscient jumps across characters thoughts, gleefully dipping into whichever head happens to be handy. This is where Rosenfeld differentiates between continuous -- which never stop hopping -- and instants which are omniscient bits scattered into a predominantly third person limited point of view.

A scene involves significant action with the protagonist charging towards some intention, running into some conflicts, concluding a climax and change. Point of view is how the events are shown to the reader. With a single protagonist and point of view, the world is simple. Decide how much intimacy you want, consider that third person limited is the most popular approach, and decide what you're going to do. However, with multiple protagonists or some other reason to switch points of view within a scene, you may need to change points of view. Omniscient point of view lets you tackle complex or comprehensive looks at big situations and issues. When you do this, make sure that the very beginning of the scene makes it clear to the reader what's happening.

Between scenes is a common place to change points of view. You still want to make sure at the beginning of each scene that the reader knows what the point of view is, but at least they're prepared for such changes.


Okay, that's enough from Rosenfeld. Basically, the question is what point of view is the scene and the story told from. Where are we perched as we watch the action? The most common choice is probably on the shoulder of the protagonist, third person limited. Mostly like a camera watching over the shoulder of the protagonist, with occasional dips into his or her thinking. Another approach is first person, not just on the shoulder of the protagonist, inside their head -- actually my head! But on occasion, you'll need to change points of view to sprinkle in some extra information or even keep the points of view moving in an omniscient overview. The question usually is what's the best way to get the reader involved and keep them involved.

Assignments? Well, as usual one good way to look at this is to pick up some of your favorite novels or stories and examine how point of view is used. Most of the time, most scenes are told from a single point of view -- first person or third limited. Sometimes the point of view changes between scenes or chapters, and look at how the story establishes what the new point of view is.

Another is to try taking a scene and changing the point of view. First person, third person limited, the protagonist's point of view, the antagonist's point of view, someone else -- see how the scene changes as you write it from different points of view. Or take something like the famous shower scene in Psycho -- imagine writing this in first person? Maybe that's a little too intimate, so you step back to third person limited. Orson Scott Card points out that even here, there are levels of distance that the writer needs to think about. A cinematic approach might only show things, without any of those little internal monologues that we all love so much. A somewhat closer approach might have some thoughts, but still mostly depend on showing external actions. And then there are third person limited write ups that are mostly inside the head of the protagonist, with a little bit of external vision. You might try adjusting your scene to have more or less of the protagonist's thoughts.

One of the fun parts here is that as writers, we can borrow terminology from the moviemakers. Establishing shots, wide-angle, close up -- we've got that whole bag of tricks that they use, plus the freedom to bring out the thoughts, emotions, beliefs and so forth inside the heads of our characters. Don't overdo it -- stories that are little more than an internal rant aren't too likely to be interesting to readers -- but we do have that spice of insight to help separate written from cinematic visions.

So, write! I write, you write, he writes, she writes, we all write! Conjugations in a writing mood?

"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results." Sir Winston Churchill
Which I guess means that it ain't enough to dance pretty, you need to bake some cookies, too. (Don't you just love torturing metaphors?)

Chapter 22: Multiple Points of View

We're coming up on the end of Make a Scene by Jordan Rosenfeld. Chapter 22 is the first chapter in part four, which looks at other scene considerations. Multiple points of view, the protagonist's emotional thread, secondary and minor characters, scene transitions, and scene assessment and revision are all we have left to meander through. So let's get started.

Point-of-view or POV is one of the defining characteristics of narrative. It's really very simple, who is the character or camera that is looking at the fictional action, characters, etc.? Selecting a point of view influences tone, mood, pace -- just about everything in a scene. Probably the key to point of view is integrity and consistency -- making sure that the reader is never confused about POV.

One of the critical points to understand about POV is that it only defines what you show the reader, it also helps determine the distance between the reader and the characters. The intimacy, if you will. The story and content can help you decide how-up-close-and-personal to make the POV.

First person is the most intimate. I stabbed him -- it's immediate, emotional involvement. Inside the first person head. The flipside is that sometimes readers need some distance. Suffering, pain, crises -- third person limited can help with objectivity and intensity. When combined with present tense -- which makes it very immediate -- it's tight and hot for the reader. Past tense gives a little bit more distance.

Second person? I'm going to skip this section, because I really don't think new writers are likely to need to use second person.

Third person. This is the "she's" and "he's" that we are pretty familiar with. There are at least two major forms, with some gradations. Rosenfeld talks about omniscient and limited. He also describes two flavors of omniscient.

Third person limited is probably the most widely used POV. Basically, each scene, and often entire books, are written from one character's point of view, with some insights into that one character's thoughts, and no one else's.

Omniscient jumps across characters thoughts, gleefully dipping into whichever head happens to be handy. This is where Rosenfeld differentiates between continuous -- which never stop hopping -- and instants which are omniscient bits scattered into a predominantly third person limited point of view.

A scene involves significant action with the protagonist charging towards some intention, running into some conflicts, concluding a climax and change. Point of view is how the events are shown to the reader. With a single protagonist and point of view, the world is simple. Decide how much intimacy you want, consider that third person limited is the most popular approach, and decide what you're going to do. However, with multiple protagonists or some other reason to switch points of view within a scene, you may need to change points of view. Omniscient point of view lets you tackle complex or comprehensive looks at big situations and issues. When you do this, make sure that the very beginning of the scene makes it clear to the reader what's happening.

Between scenes is a common place to change points of view. You still want to make sure at the beginning of each scene that the reader knows what the point of view is, but at least they're prepared for such changes.

One thing to consider is how much time each point of view gets. With multiple narrators, you need to be careful. Readers tend to think that narrators who get more time must be more important, or have something special to say.

Okay, that's enough from Rosenfeld. Basically, the question is what point of view is the scene and the story told from. Where are we perched as we watch the action? The most common choice is probably on the shoulder of the protagonist, third person limited. Mostly like a camera watching over the shoulder of the protagonist, with occasional dips into his or her thinking. Another approach is first person, not just on the shoulder of the protagonist, inside their head -- actually my head! But on occasion, you'll need to change points of view to sprinkle in some extra information or even keep the points of view moving in an omniscient overview. The question usually is what's the best way to get the reader involved and keep them involved.

Assignments? Well, as usual one good way to look at this is to pick up some of your favorite novels or stories and examine how point of view is used. Most of the time, most scenes are told from a single point of view -- first person or third limited. Sometimes the point of view changes between scenes or chapters, and look at how the story establishes what the new point of view is.

Another is to try taking a scene and changing the point of view. First person, third person limited, the protagonist's point of view, the antagonist's point of view, someone else -- see how the scene changes as you write it from different points of view. Or take something like the famous shower scene in Psycho -- imagine writing this in first person? Maybe that's a little too intimate, so you step back to third person limited. Orson Scott Card points out that even here, there are levels of distance that the writer needs to think about. A cinematic approach might only show things, without any of those little internal monologues that we all love so much. A somewhat closer approach might have some thoughts, but still mostly depend on showing external actions. And then there are third person limited write ups that are mostly inside the head of the protagonist, with a little bit of external vision. You might try adjusting your scene to have more or less of the protagonist's thoughts.

One of the fun parts here is that as writers, we can borrow terminology from the moviemakers. Establishing shots, wide-angle, close up -- we've got that whole bag of tricks that they use, plus the freedom to bring out the thoughts, emotions, beliefs and so forth inside the heads of our characters. Don't overdo it -- stories that are little more than an internal rant aren't too likely to be interesting to readers -- but we do have that spice of insight to help separate written from cinematic visions.

So, write! I write, you write, he writes, she writes, we all write! Conjugations in a writing mood?

"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results." Sir Winston Churchill
Which I guess means that it ain't enough to dance pretty, you need to bake some cookies, too.
(Don't you just love torturing metaphors?)

original posting: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 09:29:48 EST

[just some thoughts looking for a peaceful discussion...join me?]

POV. You hear the letters bandied around, and there are exercises and whatnot about it. But...why bother?

Point of View.

I think I'd break down the main flavors as: third person (Omniscient, limited omniscient) or first person.

The preferred, or default, usually is third person, limited omniscient.

Third person (omniscient or limited omniscient) uses "he", "she", "they". The story (or whatever) is told from _outside_ the actors, as if one were a god/dess hovering outside the action (or perhaps just a camera floating over their shoulder).

One of the critical questions for third person is whether the narrator "knows everything" (omniscient) or the narrator is a walking camera (limited omniscient).

A related question is whether or not the narrator has access to thoughts or not.

And while we're considering the narrator, it is also important whether the narrator is a relatively neutral POV (sort of the ideal newsperson?) or has their own biases and faults. Since the third person POV ideally does not intrude much on the action, it may seem as if the narrator would normally be neutral--but it is something to consider occasionally.

First person (I, me, myself) is often assumed to be easier. After all, I know how to talk as myself, so telling a story as if I were the protagonist must be easy.

I think first person may be harder. It is difficult to remember to stay inside the one person selected as the protagonist. It is difficult to come up with good ways or reasons for the protagonist to somehow know everything (without helpful cohorts whispering secrets to them). It also is difficult to show the reader what the "I" knows, without massive monologues, ranting into mirrors, and such devices.

Tense, of course, falls into past or present (with the classic writer preferring the past tense, and modern experimentalists playing with present tense).

One could imagine a future tense story...but it would be difficult. Perhaps one of the best uses I can think of for future tense would be a story told from the POV of a dying person--with the third person future tense for the hoped for future contrasted to a few lines of present tense first person as the person dies at the end of the piece.

That's more than enough from me.

How do you decide what POV to use? When do you use different ones, and why? Do you ever write something from one POV, then redo it using another?

How do you decide what tense to write in? When would you use present tense, or past tense?

Oh, and poetically inclined folks? I realize it may not be obvious, but I think the question of POV and tense are as applicable to poetry as well as narrative. What kinds of POV does the poet use? What does tense do for (or against) you in writing your poetry?