Re: TECH: Let's Talk about...POV and Tense

[mbarker.livejournal.com]

original posting: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 00:10:12 EST

On Mon, 10 Nov 1997 11:54:40 PST, Celia asked:
:)
:) Where on your scale do you put the first person story that is written
:) from the view of a Doctor Watson type character. This character is the
:) POV character, but everything is filtered through the perceptions and
:) activities of another character. Ergo, not really first person at all. Or
:) is it?

First off, thank you for the opportunity to drag out my Complete Sherlock Holmes and do some checking.
 
As you say, the stories are told from the first person POV (Dr. Watson). This is almost a cliche now in mystery stories (although still with lots of life in it)--telling the story from the POV of the "great detective's assistant" (or other sidekick). I consider them very much as first person POV tales.

A little different question might be why should the "first person" be the sidekick instead of the "great detective" himself (or herself)?

I think there are at least two reasons. First, this allows the "secret thinking" of the great detective to remain a mystery, making it easier for the reader to pummel their brains in competition with the detective. One of the great "tricks" of the Nero Wolfe series by Rex Stout was that the person who did all the running around was NOT the great detective, but the assistant. So we could be relatively sure that the detective did not have any knowledge except what "we" had reported to him--and he still out-thought us!

Second, I think it is a little easier for the reader to "imagine themselves" in the shoes of the sidekick. Watching the great detective lay down in the wet grass or otherwise surprise us, then eventually being surprised when they resolve the puzzle...being "Dr. Watson" is much easier for the reader than being "Sherlock Holmes."

Hum...you do bring up a point, though. The first person narrator may or may not be the protagonist--the primary actor around whom the story turns. So perhaps we should consider when it is useful for the narrator to also be the protagonist?

Could the narrator be the antagonist?

Incidentally, the first person narrator usually is a more rounded or full character than the third person narrator (who frequently is little more than a POV). So perhaps when the character of the narrator is important to the story, we should use first person?

FILL: New to the list

[mbarker.livejournal.com]

original posting: Sat, 9 May 1998 00:26:10 EDT

[WARNING: intended as fun. I enjoy diddling with words, don't fret too much about the deep hidden meanings because I certainly wasn't trying to sink too much into it, just a few idle licks on the keyboard before the time passes me by...]

:) Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 18:35:12 PDT
:) From: Dick
:)
:) I'm new to this.

You know, there's a morsel of truth hidden in there for all of us? I mean, every instant is the first time for any of us to be then, so we are always new to this, no matter how often we may think we've dipped our toes in that river before...

(waxing philosophical so soon? or maybe it's so late, as the bits flow?)

:) Is this a good list?

Good? Bad? It's a list. There are over 1,250 members, and we range widely (some may rage wildly, others rang wittily...it averages out, although the abnormal is quite acceptable here).

Frankly, I think it's a great list. But I'm prejudiced.

I will say that part of the "goodness" of the list depends on what you put into it, and on how you look at experiences. If you are willing to learn, actively, through discussion and interaction with others--you will probably consider the list to be "good." If you are looking for a place where the god(desse)s of truth will shower you with the definitive ways to do miracles of art and craft, and all you have to do is sop up the dampness...well, you're likely to find it a bit dry and sandy, even irritating.

:) Is this a good list for beginning writers?

Aha! Good for beginning writers, and that morsel of insight about every one of us always being new to this...so we are always beginning, always trying new things, always working on that next creation?

But, in fine, I think the answer would be yes. We aren't exactly organized by ranking or anything (imagine if there were belts for writers? we could do contests, with judges and all that, and pass out the appropriate belts for those who demonstrate their skills. and we could have schools!) But in any case, we do invite those who write to participate, whether you are beginning, professional, post-professional, or some other placement.

:) Are there professional writers on this list?

There are people who have been paid for their writing on this list. There are people who live by their writing. And, of course, we have those who profess writing, those who write as an avocation, those who write as a hobby, and probably many others.

:) Who writes good fiction?

There's that word again--"good"?

By volume of sales, I would be forced to say the Romance Writers write the best fiction.

By various other measures, one might point in other directions.

Perhaps the question is, what do you consider "good" fiction--and how could you write such fiction?

Now that's a pair of questions we could work on together.

:) Who are the better poets?

Ranking poetry? As well battle banjoes, or fight kites.

Tell you what, why don't you read some of the submissions, perhaps critique some, and let us know what kinds of insight you find in the poetry (which may or may not tie into the poets behind the words, but I'll let you talk about that)?

I'm new to this?

What a concept, that iceberg of time shattering the complacent luxury liner of our egos, leaving us floundering in the cold water of a new reality, a new creation, a wider ocean...

With our friends perhaps playing on the foredeck, or huddled in the lifeboats, or pushing us up to lie on a piece of molding, waiting for the rescuers to come?

welcome!